58% say no. >> wow. >> i say yes. >> i say yes, too. listen, the debate is going to continue online at cnn.com/crossfire as well as on facebook and twitter. from the left i'm van jones. >> from the right i'm newt gingrich. join us this is piers morgan live. taking the blame for the obama care website fiasco. secretary sebelius. >> let me say directly to these americans, you deserve better. i apologize. >> then her boss. >> there is no excuse for it. i take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed asap. >> have you been online long? >> the president tried to get online and my daughter tried.

i did not. it was clear i was not getting online. >> hardly surprising given the right with breaking news. live healthcare.gov website is down again. what an absolute fiasco. what is up? will it be the cure we are hoping for? how his party handled obama care doing too much for the country. the dirty job search and what he told glen beck about college education. >> to start your life 80 grand in the hole with your art history major or mid-eastern studies and not finding work, that's why you have to -- >> for that, he is supposed to be the mad one. that's for starters and sets the record straight live on this very show. return to the great sinkhole, one of my favorite guests.

we will begin with the big story. obama care fiasco and the president apologized. everyone is apologizing and while secretary sebelius was apologizing and talking about the disaster, the health care website he was apologizing about was crashing. it was almost comical. the president took aim at republicans for trying to destroy his law. >> health care is complicated and very personal. it's easy to scare folks. and it's no surprise that some of the same folks trying to scare people now are the same folks who have been trying to sink the affordable care act from the beginning. >> joining me now is the chairman of the republican national committee.

you guys have gone from being the villains to suddenly the heroes. how on earth did this happen? >> it's not a good result as far as the american people go. the problem is not just the website. that's a mess and people can't sign up. now we are getting into really some bad things that are affecting us. the hundreds of thousands beingd finding out with obama.

>> as time that people will see fighting over the implementation of law that would be terrible for the american people is worth it and so this is going to require legislative action and you are going to see democrats coming to the table admitting that the president lied and it's a law that would be a disaster for the american people and a lot of these democrats want to try to get reelected and they will come back to the table. >> did the president when he kept reassuring everybody and all the videos replayed again and again and again with numerous events, when he promised people if you like your insurance, you like your doctor, you can keep both. did he tell the american people repeatedly a bold faced lie? >> either he lied to the american people or he is so grossly negligent in doing his job it's a kin to a lie.

there is a point in the law where if you don't intentionally lie, but you are so negligent, it's the same thing. they knew in the fine print that someone knew if your coverage changed between 2009 and where we sit in 2013, you would be dropped. they kept saying if you like your insurance, you can keep your insurance. if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. the problem is either he knew that was a lie or he is such a bystander president and so aloof to the detail that he should be aware of that look, his confidence is called into question on this law and the american people had it.

>> huge kathleen sebelius given that he said she wants to be held personally accountable. >> the honorable thing to do when you have been given the secretary. in the united states for any president, there is honor and dignity in saying this is a mess and i'm at the center of it and i'm going to resign. that's what normal honorable people do in cases like this. would i rather let the exchanges go through and show the american people what a headache this is? the answer politically is yeah. you know what, that may make sense politically, but the problem and the reality is this is so bad and so hurtful to the

american people that even a political positive is such a negative. >> that's why you shut down the government. let's just get to light a year down the road. the white house turned this around and exchanges are working. it appears to be working despite the glitches. would they be dismantled or would you accept they tried again and failed again? >> millions of people sign up and don't lose insurance by millions already today. they are going to stay on the program and 40% said they are not sure they are.

all that in fantasyland doesn't happen. great. that's a great program. that's not what's going to happen, piers. it's going to get worse. this is the reality. >> the sense of cruz. this is the standard bearer for the charge and obama care. >> he's got a shot. >> people who vote in republican primaries, we saw what it looked like the last time and the time before. the problem with the republican primaries last time for them is they didn't have a ted cruz.

>> can you see her that cruz is the party's nominee. >> i don't know if he will be the nominee, think we will hav bench. the one thing that we need to either delay or dismantle obama care. that position of delaying and dismannedling obama care as days and weeks go by will be a stronger and stronger position for us to have in this party and it is going to be determining factor in 2014 and that's why you will see democrats caving soon and they'll do whatever they can to stop this from being further implemented. wait and see, but that's going to happen. >> good to talk to you. thank you very much. >> thank you, piers.

>> between the left and the right, a ranking member of the subcommittee on health and the vice chair of the house energy and commerce committee. welcome to both of you. let me start with you, congressman. >> it's all a bunch of nonsense. the fact of the matter is -- they are meeting up every day. preexisting conditions as a basis for health care have been abolish abolished. >> the website is down as i am speaking to you. >> the website obviously. >> how can you not say it's a fiasco. >> that's a bit of an overstatement. the website is functioning. as of last week, three out of ten people were able to enroll and every day you are going to see improvements. secretary sebelius testified that by the end of november it should be 100%. remember you don't have to go on the website. people sign up every day by

calling the 800 number or an insurance agent or through various nonprofits and last week i was with people at our food bank signing up. affordable care act is not the website. >> let me ask you, if it's not a fiasco, why is everyone from the president to sebelius to biden the way you can sign up and many other ways to sign up. this is interesting. it's more and more people enrolling every day. remember also people are now expanding. they get health care at a lower price than they were able before. >> it was heat and what if you play a clip with you in action.

this was quite a question. >> some people like to drive a ford or ferrari and some people drink out of a red solo cup. you are taking away their choices. >> i have a red solo cup and a crystal stem. there we are. clear evidence. it's clearly been a disastrous start to all this. what happens as i said to them previously. as they managed to get the secretary claiming they will happen by the end of november. it's a few weeks this is up and running. that is popular. report you guys going to look silly in april where it's working. >> i have to tell you. what we know is that he wasted hundreds of millions of dollars

building a website that does not work. we had them under oath and we asked them. here is a big part of the problem. not only does the website work so no, they can't get to that, but those people are signing up are primarily signing up for medicaid. repository. we have already had it hacked. your own network reported on a

hacker who got in and removed all this information. personal identifying information on people that had signed up. they already had a major problem. the problem is money, privacy. >> let me jump in and ask the congressman. >> let me ask you a question. y plan or boldly telling people if you want to keep your doctor, you can. that was a lie. >> of course it it was not a lie. just to the contrary. people can keep their plans. if insurance companies want it,

why not offer a lousy -- if insurance companies want to offer lousy plans that don't have good coverage and cost a lot of money to the taxpayer or the insured, they can. what's happening here -- >> what percentage of people who want to keep their plan or doctor as per the president's promise can? >> over 90%. most people get their insurance through the employer and continue to get that. i think -- >> just to clarify, when people say as many as 50 or 60% may not be able to do that, you say no, that's nonsense. 90% will be able to keep it? is that right? >> can i answer the question? the majority of the people, probably 80 or 90% opinion to get insurance and the employer continues to offer it and can keep it. what the president was talking about and what the congressman is talking about is the

individual market. if they want to california it. they realize a lot of plans are lousy, almost a scam. they can't california them because people won't buy them. now obama care -- >> why didn't the president just say that. rather than making this bold promise to sell his plan, why didn't he be honest? >> we have to look from a practical point of view. >> please. >> what about telling the american people the truth? >> we are offering a good insurance policy at an affordable price. if marcia said i want to keep a lousy plan that's a scam, the insurance company is not going to sell it because nobody will buy it. that's the bottom line. >> please let me respond. >> they have policies and it's the insurance company because they are scammed policies and they are not going to sell them

anymore. >> wait a minute. final word to congressman blackburn. your final word. >> thank you. we know the numbers don't work. individuals have been able to buy insurance or employers able to offer insurance that suited the needs of families. they have been pleased with their insurance. to be so insulting to people to say the insurance you had is a scam, the president should never have gone out and said that and continued to say it. if as nbc news reported, they knew this three years ago that that was not a truthful statement, it is bad staff work that they were doing it. you need to stop that. that is insulting. and inappropriate to people. that is inappropriate. >> if you move the goal post any further, they will literally be off the field.

thank you both very much for joining me. i will continue this debate as the excuses get ever more ludicrous. coming up, the actor comedian is in our green room and joins me in a few moments. first, a dirty job done right. mike rowe. what people are all talking about. >> a lot of people look and say there it is. mike is against a college education. i'm not against a college education. i'm against debt. the only four-letter word in my family. [ coughs, sneezes ]

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>> am i looking at poo and crusted vomit. >> those are the good ones. every now and then there is is u start talking like that. >> use your words. i can still hear my mother. use your words. >> mike rowe tackled swamps and sewers and coal mines. he was on glen beck's show. not defending himself, a crowd of haters. welcome to you, mike. let's remind my viewers about why you got into hot water. this is what you said to glen beck. >> like all pr campaigns, it went too far. we started promoting college at the expense of all those vocations that my grandpa did. suddenly those things become vocational consolation prizes.

>> vocational school is like school for the retarded. you know what i mean? >> mr. beck. we don't think you have what it takes to take you here. can you put the glass on here? >> right. that's crazy. >> the point that you were making, i watched the whole interview to inform myself of the context of it. these kids running up the debts and spending three or four years studying subjects that they will not get a job for at the end seemed to be a contributing job to the jobs crisis where people are not educated to suit the right jobs and be the $17 trillion debt. >> and c, nothing i said with glen prompted any of the outcry. what prompted it was that i walked in a room and sat down

and tried to talk with it. the same thing happened on the other side when i had the same conversation with bill mahr and bill o'reilly and ed. they can listen to what you are saying, but with both eyes they are watching who you are talking to. as soon as i get home and check my feed, there will be people saying things to me about you. very, very respectful things, i'm sure. it's so much these days not about what you are saying. >> if you are watching, my twitter is alive and active. tweet me and we will test the theory that might be more interesting finding views about. i'm sure there might be a few. let's cut to the quick. america has over 7% unemployment. it has the biggest companies like apple outsourcing 90% of the jobs to chuck. it has a crisis of identity gone

from being the great manufacturing power house of the world to something very different and that was quite sure what it is. how do we get america back to work some. >> make sure you are looking at a narrative. while everything that you said from what i read is entirely true, some other things are true too. there about 3.5 million jobs available right now. 10% require a four-year degree or better. they require training and skill and a willingness to get dirty perhaps. mostly a willingness to learn a new and useful trade. that's for sale and falling out of the narrative. it's a critical thing to do. like the debate you were having, it's craze tow suggest in my opinion that one kind of education fits everybody. some of the best schools that are modest and small and they have placement rates of 80 to

85%. >> america's record of literally and the key educational litmus tests, if you like, is shocking. they are falling so far behind countries like china and india and others, it's getting embarrassing. what is going on with the education system in america that is leading to the statistics? >> i don't think things like the skills gap or currency devaluation or manufacturing outsourcing, i don't think these things are problems in and of themselves. they are symptoms of something bigger and i think that the bigger thing is our own disconnect with the very fundamental notion of valuable work, meaningful work. i don't think we are up to speed. we are telling kids, work hard and work smart not hard. that's what we are telling.

i had a poster in my guidance counsellor's office that said work smart, not hard. there it is. amazing. we breeding a softer generation? i have boys in their teen years and a young daughter. 20, 16, and 13. they are working hard at school and college and university and so on. i'm worried about what happens at the end of this. what do you say? america is on a much bigger scale with a bigger problem. >> you can't keep talking about the expectations in the same way we always have. you have to step back and see what are the available jobs right now and what you have to do. i talk every day to -- we are in business with a couple of trade shows. we are working to reward these two things. a willingness to learn a new skill and work your butt off. it's difficult to avoid work

ethic, but the scholarships are coming. so far it's about academic and athletic and talent. rewarding work ethic and the behavior we want to encourage, that's what's for sale. that's what we are not doing. >> disgusting filthy and slimy. >> very true. >> would you ever consider plummeting the depths of working in washington, d.c.? >> good lord. i will sit for my champagne. >> i feel dirty just asking. if you did, what would you do? >> retire. when we made our commitment to the gulf, bp had two big goals:

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this came from where? >> this came from a zoo. we call it zoo poo. can you tell what sort of animal produced it. >> you might get an elephant dung. that's an impressive piece right there. >> i wish i never asked people to send their verdicts. i have never seen such a reaction. all american man stud was one and another said piers morgan is a complete tool and also dirty jobs keeps america moving. >> at least he is complete. >> that are strategy seems to have blown up in my face. sending more thoughts at piers morgan. let's continue a very iteresting debate about what america's identity is going to be. it was as i said this great manufacturer.

can it be that again? >> sure. >> even with new technology? >> we are still the greatest manufacturing force on the planet. we are just celebrateing it in a way that is not quite lined up. i talked to a guy who runs tulsa welding school. they train welders every day. companies come to this school. can you give us 20 or 30 or 40? they do the best they can. the problem is supply. on the other end you have guidance counsellors saying if you don't study, you will likely end up welling. a good welder is 120 or $130,000 a year. >> what do you think about apple out sourcing hundreds of thousands or millions going forward in countries like china. >> i wish my brain were a little bigger, but i remember huxley said the greatest enemy to

freedom is total anarchy and the second greatest is total efficiency. something that evolves the difference between efficiency and effectiveness. i'm not sure what it is, but it has to do with practical applications. >> the guy from starbucks, he has begun to bring it back to america which he would otherwise have outsourced to deal with a moral capitalist beauty. i like that. he will be rewarded. i don't think that. >> wal-mart committed to $50 billion of manufacturing in the next few years. $50 billion worth of manufacturing. that's because i said jobs. the problem is building factories and creating opportunities is not enough. that's what the skills are. >> if you are going to go back

to where the kids are educated, give them the right skills. >> let's talk you up. someone tweeted earlier the problem is social media. too many young kids are addicted to twitter and facebook and my space and whatever it may be. so much time on these laptops that they don't have the physical drive and graph of their parents and grandparents. >> maybe, but a better argument is the show you work on for instance and many shows have been very, very popular. not a criticism and it's interesting to see "american idol." it's not just what you are celebrating, but the speed with which you were given the reward. the gratification today, the expectation is immediate. i would like my blue ribbon now, please. if you don't get the blue ribbon, i want some kind of trophy. i am that precious snow flake and somebody moved my cheese and

et cetera, et cetera, etc. >> the egg and spoon races are banned around the world. what are you thinking? >> somebody will lose and then they will feel bad. >> for makes the winning sweeter. i lost enough times to no. i hate that idea that everyone at school has to be a winner. >> you can't scrub the consequences out of the transaction. whatever it is. stem, for instance. there is a lost jobs about science, technology, engineering and math. those jobs require skill. why not talk about skill in the context of every job that requires it. if you do, you will appeal to a lot of kids's brains who are otherwise going to tune you out. that's how they see the world. it's a question of it's not i'm against college or for this or against that, but look, you have to have a big conversation and if you are hanging posters up and say work smart, not hard,

the skills gap is not a mystery. it's a reflection of what we value. that's it. >> mike rowe, it's great to see you. mike rowe works foundation is your nonprofit in the career in the skilled trades. >> i will take it. sorry about the twitter. >> sort out really dirty ones there. the fist pumping from the senior. senior. he is in the house.

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i never got a chance to thank you for allowing me to sit in and host your show. it got me in practice for this. >> you were fantastic. you returned the favor to let me host your show tonight. >> you are just a guest. you will not host the show. >> i am hosting your show tonight. i have been hanging out with the posse 2.0 and we are ready to rock. >> i was dragged to the body guard. a guest on the start. let's start with this.

you are back. you are back in late night where you belong. >> i'm having a good time. you allowed me to have a tune up here. >> you guest hosted for me. i don't want to oversell the importance of that, but since we shared, there was a suggestion that after you did that show under my name, you thought i ought to be back in this. >>, awe loued me to interview anybody i wanted to. we did politics and it was back in the zimmerman controversy and trayvon. did a little bit of that and brought magic and cookie johnson. that was fun. magic looked at me and said you are going back. i was beaming. >> has it been everything you hoped? >> yes. it's a lot of work and a crowded market now.

i i'm thinking about changing my name. piers, i'm working harder than i have ever worked and i love it. that's what makes the man work. >> let's get into obama care which is not working at the moment for fairly disastrous reasons. what do you make of it? here's president obama with the great flagship thing he created. obama care. they launched it like a bunch of kids at school. >> yeah. it's sad. a threw a laptop off the window and tried to get on to the obama care website and now i need apple care. i don't know if that's covered under obama care. apple care is very good. i feel sad for our country

because i'm a republicrat. obama might have overpromise and now he will have to moon walk out of those statements. >> when you see him behaving, does your heart sink? this guy came in on this wave of this is going to change everything. he was going to change the way washington worked and be transparent. i haven't seen that. when you see all the video replace of saying you can keep your doctor and keep the plan, they knew that was complete nonsense. i feel disheartened and let down by it and i'm not even an american. >> maybe you allowed yourself to float too high on the promises. i don't believe in anyone who is a politician. i think it's oxymoronic to be a

politician and be anything like the common man. >> can you be honest? >> you can't be successful if you are the common man. it's a business and everybody in it is the same. i'm sorry. for history, i love that my son gets to see obama as president and i lived to see obama as president. to mistake this to be anything other than politics as usual is a mistake. >> with last time, it's an ongoing fascinating question as to whether the first african-american president they ever had made america more or less racist. has it drawn it out or begun to deal with it? >> it's impossible for me as an individual to gauge whether it's

more or less. since he has been in office, i have seen it amplified and seen it publicly more than ever before. it's because racists have a target. i have seen things happen to this president i have never seen happen to a man in the highest office. a lot of it is blatantly racist. we have seen things that existed before and will exist afterwards. >> let's take a short break and come back. i am probably getting one in three tweets saying ask him if he getting back with eddie murphy. >> that's a good question. >> keep that.

>> the wolf man. not the wolf man, the would have man. >> arsenio hall. >> i like the shows where you get prepared to get your answers. let's get this over with. >> i have a few myself. jack nicholson is number one. if you are watching jack, come o. >> when was the last time he did something like this. >> about 40 years literally. >> was it carson? >> it may have been johnny carson. >> one of us will get him. since mr. trump calls me champ being it will probably be me. >> we want celeb witty apprentice. >> let's talk about your dream. who would it be? >> i would love to have hillary

play any instrument. that would be great. i have been reading a lot about chris brown. >> what about chris brown. why should i not think terrible things about chris brown? >> mike tyson said he is worried about chris brown. if mike is worried about your behavior, should you check yourself. his felony charge was a misdemeanor and that's part of the 49 strikes and you're outlaw. i would love to have him on my show halloween and maybe he will punch a scarecrow. >> do you have sympathy for him? >> yeah. he's such a talented entertainer and you have to think that somewhere in his past there is some kind of pain. i don't think he's a bad kid. i think he's a kid doing bad things. >> could it be that he knows

that the reaction he gets after these incidents, you and i might be horrified, but a large percentage of his fans think good old chris. bad boy. >> that's a good thing in pop culture. >> it can be for people like him. i see no damaging effect in his career. quite the opposite. >> for he does jail time, maybe it will change him. i had a brother who spent all his in jail. he was more comfortable in jail than home with us. sometimes it can change you. maybe he needs to be a roommate with o.j. for a minute. he wants to be a tv evangelist. >> what are do you think of that? >> he will have to preach the nine commandments. that was in the paper. >> do you still do stand up? >> i love doing stand up. >> how did you do it? >> i go on sunday nights with a place called comedy magic.

sometimes i go to the ice house and i love to get on the stage and get ready for the peek and if i can go out on the show some nights, i love stand up. if i couldn't do anything else in the business, i know i can still walk in any club and go on stage and make people laugh. at the root of what i love to do, that's what it's all about. >> eddie murphy and you were brilliant together. any chance to be spoken about? >> we always talk about doing coming to america. on the third glass of wine you come up with great scripts. he takes your wife and you have to find her in queens. he is am can be on my show soon. i have everybody coming up including a friend of yours. a man who has been responsible for a lot of your success. simon. mr. cowell. he is am can be on friday. the next three weeks, he is bringing paulina rubio. i have from kyle to murphy. every t-shirt in between.

>> would you like to work with eddie murphy? >> we have good chemistry and you don't want to mess up a good thing. sequels don't always go the way you want them to. >> godfather did. rocky was good. >> coming to america is so nice where it is. it is wonderful the way it glorifies africa and at the same time gives you a smile and it holds up. it holds up. >> who is pound for pound the funniest person you have seen in your? >> i think the best writer was george carlin. the funniest person is richard pryor. >> a lot of stand up say that. is he deemed to be the unofficial king? >> yeah. >> what are made him brilliant? >> he was not afraid to go places in the world of honesty

that some comics won't go to. if my mother ran aer who house, i may not tell you, but richard went to truth. he was unafraid to unzip and show you who he was. that's the next level of where a guy like me might not go. the first time i have said things like my brother was in jail. you open that stuff up. >> let's have more of it on the show that airs week nights. check your local listings. i am thrilled you are back in late night. you are one of my comedic legends. >> come on my show one night. >> i will. we'll be right back.

that's all for us tonight. we enjoyed it so much a week ago. >> per good evening. president obama defends his signature health care reform law and the cabinet gets thumped for how poorly the roll out of the website is going. breaking news in the death of a 17-year-old african-american young man in georgia. kendrick johnson's parents insisted it was not an accident as local officials concluded,